Elon Musk was deposed final month over his function in allegedly selling a false conspiracy principle {that a} 22-year-old Jewish man participated in a neo-Nazi brawl.
Musk tried to maintain the deposition from going public, and maybe for good purpose: It didn’t go nicely for him.
“There’s some threat that what I say is wrong, however one has to steadiness that towards having a chilling impact on free speech generally, which might undermine your entire basis of our democracy,” Musk, the proprietor of X (previously Twitter), mentioned throughout the deposition.
The lawsuit towards the billionaire, filed in October, alleges that Musk used his colossal social media platform to amplify a false far-right conspiracy principle linking 22-year-old Ben Brody to a brawl in Oregon between the neo-Nazi group Rose Metropolis Nationalists and the Proud Boys, a neo-fascist battle membership. The brawl occurred throughout Oregon Metropolis’s first Satisfaction Night time Fest, when each teams got here to disrupt the occasion and spew anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric.
Brody wasn’t even in the identical state when the June 24 brawl occurred. However his world was turned the wrong way up when far-right X accounts, magnified by Musk, falsely recognized him as a member of Rose Metropolis Nationalists (and an undercover federal agent) and posted his private info on-line.
Musk amplified the conspiracy principle repeatedly to his greater than 180 million followers, suggesting Brody was a fresh-faced federal agent pretending to be a neo-Nazi in a “false flag state of affairs,” a phrase used to recommend a dangerous occasion was intentionally set as much as misrepresent a bunch or individual.
“Appears to be like like one is a university pupil (who needs to affix the govt.) and one other is possibly an Antifa member, however nonetheless a possible false flag state of affairs,” Musk posted to X after Brody had been falsely recognized as a Rose Metropolis Nationalists member. The post remains on X.
Brody mentioned he and his household had been pressured to flee their house amid the fallout from Musk’s posts. He’s searching for greater than $1 million in damages. The following court docket listening to is scheduled for April 22.
On March 27, Musk sat for a two-hour deposition with attorneys from each events over Zoom. Following the testimony, Musk’s lawyer, Alex Spiro, filed a number of emergency motions in an try and maintain the deposition sealed.
“I’m asking that this transcript be marked as confidential,” Spiro mentioned on the finish of Musk’s deposition, in response to the transcript. “That’s what I’m asking for, OK?”
Spiro’s efforts failed after a choose struck down his motions. Although video of the deposition has not been made public, JHB obtained a duplicate of the complete transcript, which was made public Monday.
You’ll be able to learn Musk’s full testimony right here.
Throughout his deposition, Musk admitted he has a “restricted understanding” of the lawsuit towards him, mentioned he thought Brody’s lawyer was the one suing him, and revealed he did no analysis in figuring out whether or not Brody was concerned within the brawl after seeing the accusations on X.
Musk additionally made broader admissions about his failures with X — which has plummeted in worth since his takeover in 2022 — saying he “might have carried out extra to financially impair” the social media web site than assist it. Musk additionally confirmed that he as soon as used a burner account on X seemingly to role-play as his toddler son.
“I’m responsible of many self-inflicted wounds,” Musk testified.
‘Really, Mr. Musk, I’m An Lawyer. Did You Know That?’
From the outset of the deposition, Spiro traded barbs with Brody’s lawyer, Mark Bankston, as Musk tried to reply fundamental questions in regards to the case.
“Do you assume you probably did something unsuitable to Ben Brody?” requested Bankston, who’s primarily based in Houston.
Spiro interjected, saying this “isn’t a query you’re allowed to ask by the court docket.”
It was the beginning of what could be a contentious back-and-forth between two high-profile attorneys. Spiro, who has represented celebrities comparable to Jay-Z and Megan Thee Stallion, beforehand received a defamation case for Musk after the billionaire known as a person who helped rescue kids trapped in a collapse Thailand a “pedo man” in 2018.
“You retain submitting these foolish, frivolous shake-down circumstances, I’ll maintain attempting to think about Texas legal professionals to carry to your depositions,” Spiro informed Bankston.
Bankston, of the Texas legislation agency Farrar & Ball, beforehand represented two Sandy Hook dad and mom who received $45 million in damages towards conspiracy theorist Alex Jones after Jones spent years falsely claiming the 2012 college capturing by no means occurred.
Spiro didn’t reply to a request for touch upon this story. Bankston declined to remark.
All through his testimony, Musk confirmed little understanding in regards to the lawsuit he was testifying for, and even mentioned he believed it was Bankston — not Brody — who was suing him.
“I believe you’re the one suing,” Musk informed Bankston, in response to the transcript.
“Really, Mr. Musk, I’m an lawyer,” Bankston defined. “Do you know that? I’m an lawyer representing Mr. Brody.”
Requested if Musk understood what the lawsuit was about, Musk admitted he had “a restricted understanding of that — of what the lawsuit is about” however instructed once more that this was merely a cash seize by Brody’s lawyer.
“My — what I wish to assume it’s actually about is about you getting some huge cash,” mentioned Musk, who paid $44 billion for Twitter in 2022.
From An Anti-Semitic Account To Elon Musk
Musk discovered of the conspiracy principle about Brody from what the lawsuit describes as a fringe X account with greater than 30,000 followers that “options excessive rightwing memes, neo-Nazi apologia/nostalgia, juvenile and cringe-worthy makes an attempt at bigoted humor, low effort bait tweets, delusional panics over lazy hoaxes, and a cavalcade of absurdly false info.”
“The account is the social media equal of gutter sludge,” the lawsuit says.
The nameless account, named Dr Frensor, posted a photograph of Brody along with his private info discovered on his school fraternity’s social media web page. The caption on the photograph of Brody learn, “After commencement he plans to work for the federal government,” which Dr Frensor used to recommend Brody was on the brawl and a federal plant.
“Very odd,” Musk responded. Because it goes every time Musk interacts with a submit on X, this one shortly went viral.
In his deposition, Musk was requested whether or not he’d seen different posts from the Dr Frensor account.
“I wasn’t attempting to evaluate their credibility,” Musk responded.
Bankston confirmed Musk a meme Dr Frensor had posted the identical day the account posted about Brody. Extra from the transcript:
Bankston: And right here it says on the prime, ‘Is that this meme insensitive to Jewish individuals?’ After which there’s a meme of the United Nations’ emblem that claims, “Based in 1945 to finish all wars, the United Nations. The world has been at struggle ever since.’ Are you aware for those who noticed this?
Musk: I’ve not seen this.
B: Okay. Would this have triggered a pink flag as to this individual’s credibility?
Spiro: Objection to kind.
M: I imply, I believe it’s a doubtful submit, nevertheless it suggests anti-Semitism.
B: Appropriate. … I believe everyone knows it displays anti-Semitism. I’m asking, does this set off pink flags to this individual’s reliability?
M: I might say, sure, it most likely does.
Nonetheless, Musk defended his response to the anti-Semitic account.
“However for those who’re suggesting that with a view to reply to anybody, it’s important to scroll by way of all their posts, that may make it unattainable to make use of the system,” he mentioned of his web site.
A Billionaire’s Truth-Checking Course of
Opposite to his earlier statements, Musk instructed in a while within the deposition that he researches discourse earlier than he joins it.
“For those who care in regards to the fact, it’s important to go look about it,” Musk mentioned.
Musk’s personal testimony reveals he did little to hunt out the reality.
“Would it not be truthful for me to say that, aside from the tweets that you just interacted with, you didn’t safe different details about this unmasked brawler?” Bankston requested at one level.
“I don’t recall securing different info,” Musk responded.
Throughout his testimony, Musk criticized what he known as the “conventional legacy information trade” whereas lauding X’s Neighborhood Notes, an internet site instrument that permits customers so as to add corrections or extra context to deceptive or unfaithful posts.
Musk known as Neighborhood Notes “one of the best system on the web” for fact-checking, and mentioned he tagged Neighborhood Notes in his submit referencing Brody as a present of “good religion,” the transcript exhibits.
“And I believe — I believe I actually did this in good religion, as a result of I might not ask for a fact-check which is what I do by including Neighborhood Notes,” Musk mentioned, in response to the transcript.
Musk did tag Neighborhood Notes in his submit about Brody, however a observe was by no means added to the false declare. The post remains on X today with no correction.
Musk was additionally requested about his interactions with posts on X, which might make an in any other case invisible submit go immediately viral. Bankston identified that his submit on X referring to a “school pupil who needs to affix the govt.” was seen greater than one million instances, in response to X’s metrics.
Musk downplayed the quantity and argued that his submit was merely a reply to another person, which attracted much less viewership than his personal submit would.
Bankston: You do perceive that the quantity of people that noticed this, who’ve considered this, is equal to all 30 main league baseball stadiums crammed to capability? You wouldn’t dispute that? I imply, we’re speaking over one million individuals.
Spiro: Objection to kind.
Musk: Yeah, that’s really – that will look like a big quantity, however it isn’t in comparison with the very fact – I imagine there are one thing on the order of 5 to eight trillion views per 12 months so one million is absolutely –
B: Not an enormous deal?
M: – hit and miss, yeah.
B: Not an enormous deal that this went out to that many individuals?
M: Appropriate.
Illustration: JHB; Pictures: X/Getty Photos
Musk’s ‘Self-Inflicted Wounds’
Over the course of his testimony, Musk acknowledged his lack of restraint in posting on X and the unfavorable affect it’s had on his firm.
He known as them “self-inflicted wounds,” a reference to his personal quote in Walter Isaacson’s 2023 biography about him, although he says he hasn’t learn it.
“I actually — I might say that I — you recognize, I’m responsible of many self-inflicted wounds,” Musk testified.
Final 12 months, Motherboard and different web sleuths traced a weird account on X to Musk himself. The account, @ermnmusk, seemed to be role-playing as Musk’s toddler son.
“I’ll lastly flip 3 on Could 4th!” one submit learn.
“I want I used to be sufficiently old to go to nightclubs. They sound so enjoyable,” learn one other.
Although the account’s title is just not talked about within the transcript, Monday’s court docket submitting contained an exhibit of the @ermnmusk account that was proven to Musk throughout his testimony. Within the submitting, Bankston alleges that Musk deleted the account in February on the identical day of the court docket’s discovery order.
Requested in regards to the account by Bankston throughout the deposition, Musk confirmed it was his, however dismissed it as a “take a look at account.”
“No, I might not use this account,” Musk testified. “It was simply used for — for testing.”
Later within the deposition, Musk once more mirrored on these “self-inflicted wounds.”
“The — and going again to the type of self-inflicted wounds, the Kevlar sneakers, I believe there’s — I’ve most likely carried out — I’ll have carried out extra to financially impair the corporate than to assist it, however actually I — I don’t information my posts by what’s financially helpful however what I imagine is fascinating or necessary or entertaining to the general public,” he mentioned.
A day after Brody had been falsely linked to neo-Nazis, the latest school graduate uploaded a video to Instagram begging for the harassment to cease.
“My household and I are simply being harassed utterly, and I might be very happy to clear up any confusion if mandatory,” Brody says within the video. “That is simply so ridiculous and I simply actually can’t imagine that is taking place to me proper now.”
Close to the top of the deposition, Bankston requested Musk if he believed he owed it to Brody to be correct. Musk mentioned: “I aspire to be correct irrespective of who the individual is.”
“Do you assume you lived as much as that responsibility to Ben Brody or do you assume you failed him?” Bankston requested.
“I don’t assume — I don’t assume — I don’t assume he has been meaningfully harmed by this,” Musk replied.
Bankston pushed Musk on the query, main to a different argument between the 2 legal professionals. Lastly, Musk answered, reiterating his perception that he didn’t hurt Brody.
“Persons are attacked on a regular basis within the media, on-line media, social media, however it’s uncommon that that really has a significant unfavorable affect on their life,” Musk testified.